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New Finance Minister and new times. 
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Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 00:46
Posts: 522
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
This has gotten out of hand already, at the end of the day the presidency is bigger than anyone one man. The president is the CEO of the executive branch of government, he appoints his cabinet which includes the MoD, MoFA, MoF and MoI etc etc based on advice from his different advisors. However, at the end of the day the decision is his and his alone. Congress may ofcourse offer objection, but i do not believe that that is warranted right from the get go of a term. You have all admitted that you do not know the incumbent well, therefore you do not know whether he is qualified for the job or not, in that case the presidents backing should be good enough, this being further backed up by future actions of the MoF.

I understand your concerns that you do not know this person means you can not trust them, however lonestar has done his best to put you at ease by maintaining the PWs with "trusted" members of the swedish community. I am frustrated that you seem to think someone can lobby their way in to the MoF chair, this is one of the big four offices of state along with CP, MoD and MoFA. I really believe that Yoshi go the job based on his merits, and not his affiliations. If you read the articles generated by the Ministry of Industry and realized the huge amount of work that went in to collecting all that data you too would have greater awareness as to just how hard is being worked behind the scenes by the danish community in Sweden to keep the economy ticking. I do not get why you wouldnt even give this person a chance before you started questioning everyones integrity. I suggest that you ask questions instead of pointing fingers


24 Jun 2011, 01:03
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009, 15:11
Posts: 6523
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
Carlos: Like i stated i see no problems with the person choosen, but i do see great problems in the way it was performed. Lonestar lied, had trouble motivating, and overall did a poor work getting info out. Flitwick has added up to this by going outside of his charges and given himself extra responsibility and tried to take control over FinDep. At the same time being a total ass and judging by his tone, putting himself higher than everyone else. (Yes, we become real asses when someone tries to boss around. It's not your department so stop acting like it is. When, and only when, may we make peace again.)

So well, the problem i see is that Lonestar sells out places in government, still without a real motivation, to keep norsefire closer. I feel fed to the hounds and i guess things ain't funny for any of us right now, sorry if i make it worse for you guys.

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24 Jun 2011, 01:19

Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 00:46
Posts: 522
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
Crazyfrog11 wrote:
So well, the problem i see is that Lonestar sells out places in government, still without a real motivation, to keep norsefire closer. I feel fed to the hounds and i guess things ain't funny for any of us right now, sorry if i make it worse for you guys.


Nice of you to answer me personally crazy. I feel that you are being hugely unfair on Lonestar right now, he has openly expressed his admiration and respect for you numerous times and obviousely considers you a friend. On top of that he has kept the staff at the MoF as senior advisers to his government, an action that only re-enforces this respect. I find it personally concerning that you would return that with what amounts to a direct personal attack. I understand that you have a love for the country and the Ministry that you helped build, and therefore you have alot of passion for it, and that shows through, but again i do not see personal attacks on integrity or otherwise warranted, especially against a person who has shown so much respect towards you.

I honestly think that before anyone says anything that they will regret in the long term, we keep this thread simple, and say your objections have been noted. You are worried about the way it was done rather than the result. I would say maybe let the decision run its course? With Intyala still having the reins at RB and with MoF staff still as senior advisors i really do not see any harm here.


24 Jun 2011, 01:52
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010, 16:47
Posts: 5349
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
carlos wrote:
I am frustrated that you seem to think someone can lobby their way in to the MoF chair, this is one of the big four offices of state along with CP, MoD and MoFA. I really believe that Yoshi go the job based on his merits, and not his affiliations.


Well, it's not something I made up because I'm spiteful. It's a fact.

We've already covered this and even though Yoshi strikes me as a nice guy, he has not convinced me of what those merits are. Ghinsberg has a master in national economics IRL and spent several months as advisor, not to mention that he was one of the most active members of the ERX stock exchange back in the day, before I appointed him as MoF. Crazyfrog11 spent... gee, I lost count... many, many months before stepping up and mind you that it was Lonestar who appointed him in the first place. This isn't some ballpark job we're talking about; it's the top ranked position in the Ministry of Finance. Passwords or no passwords, eventually they will be given out and I wouldn't give my credit card to a stranger. I treat our Country Treasury the same way. You may think that I'm paranoid, you may call ne narrow-minded... but I can say to my defense that the staff I hired do to the job for 6 months is what has turned eSweden into a wealthy country again. So I may come off as a jerk when I vent my feelings, but Yoshi asked me to speak up, so I did. No hard feelings at all. Had it been a vice position or advisor, then I wouldn't even have blinked an eye.

My choice would've been to let intyala run the show alone for the 12 days that remain of this term. I'm sure he would've handled it. That is, if we assume that I would've kicked the frog out, which I probably wouldn't have done.

carlos wrote:
If you read the articles generated by the Ministry of Industry and realized the huge amount of work that went in to collecting all that data you too would have greater awareness as to just how hard is being worked behind the scenes by the danish community in Sweden to keep the economy ticking. I do not get why you wouldnt even give this person a chance before you started questioning everyones integrity. I suggest that you ask questions instead of pointing fingers


I have read those articles and maybe it has to do with high- and low-profile players, because I still relate MoI to Flitwick. Let me just add, for the fourth time (at least), that this has nothing to do with Yoshi. I'm sure he might have the qualifications and that he could become a good MoF once he's accustomed to his new role. But either there were other candidates and then I'd like to know who those were, or there were no other candidates and then I'd like to know why that is.

Please don't turn this into some kind of minority discrimination issue because that's not what it is. I would've been just as sceptic to this decision if it had been a Swede whom I did not know and who had never been part of the government before. We've already tried that with the MoFA position, it didn't work, and my hope was that someone had learned something from that. You start by working your way up, by earning confidence and trust. It's sad that this has become a personal decision because I'm not getting the feeling that Yoshi wanted any of that and I sure as hell don't. Like I said, he seems to be good material. Now we're stepping on eachothers toes and in the end, all it gets us is a new rift between players who shouldn't have had any reason to argue in the first place.

Bah, screw this then. Maybe I should go on vacation as well.

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24 Jun 2011, 02:00
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010, 16:47
Posts: 5349
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
carlos wrote:
Nice of you to answer me personally crazy. I feel that you are being hugely unfair on Lonestar right now, he has openly expressed his admiration and respect for you numerous times and obviousely considers you a friend.


Actions speaks louder then words. That's all I have to say regarding this matter and I will take you up on that piece of advice and simply do as I first intended; refrain from commenting this issue further.

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24 Jun 2011, 02:03

Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 00:46
Posts: 522
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
I am not saying that you have any personal feelings towards yoshi, after all you dont really know him so how could you. What i am worried about is the fact that the presidents confidence doesn't seem to be enough anymore. Obviously the way that the MM debacle was handled, without so much as a "how do you do" to the one who is ultimately responsible, the president, was frustrating to say the least as Lonestar already has said. I see your vision for a meritocracy, where people earn what they have, but i put it to you that just because yoshi did not spend 6 months in the Swedish MoF, that makes him less deserving of the role as MoF. Indeed, many RL and ecountries Ministries of finance are run by people who havent worked in the MoF before. They get the job based on their respective knowledge and experience gained from other activities outside of MoF such as business.

I think that you should gain some knowledge of the incumbent rather than saying he should spend 6 months before getting the role. I am not saying you dont know what you are doing valnad, goodness knows you were an excellent leader and a military commander, but i am saying that give someone new a chance. That is what this game is about, and that is how people progress.


24 Jun 2011, 02:12

Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 00:46
Posts: 522
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
Valnad wrote:
carlos wrote:
Nice of you to answer me personally crazy. I feel that you are being hugely unfair on Lonestar right now, he has openly expressed his admiration and respect for you numerous times and obviousely considers you a friend.


Actions speaks louder then words. That's all I have to say regarding this matter and I will take you up on that piece of advice and simply do as I first intended; refrain from commenting this issue further.



You can not equate a president making a decision in the best interests of the country to a statement of his personal feelings towards an individual valnad. Much like i dont assume you hate Yoshi because of the objections you have raised. You can see by what he has said and done, making Crazy an advisor, keeping access to RB, and close forums etc that he has not severed all links. Again i understand where you are coming from, but i will say that its a bit of a stretch to link business with pleasure. I am not saying you shouldnt comment on the issue, just do not make it personal. I still respect you even though at this moment i dont agree with you.


24 Jun 2011, 02:17
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009, 15:11
Posts: 6523
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
Let's just add in that Yoshi and the FinDep have very differing views on the economy. Mostly since i have been handpicking people who shares my views and are wellknown to have good knowledge. Never gotten a grip on Yoshi, therefore he never have gotten a chance to prove himself.

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24 Jun 2011, 02:19

Joined: 26 Nov 2008, 00:46
Posts: 522
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
Crazyfrog11 wrote:
Let's just add in that Yoshi and the FinDep have very differing views on the economy. Mostly since i have been handpicking people who shares my views and are wellknown to have good knowledge. Never gotten a grip on Yoshi, therefore he never have gotten a chance to prove himself.


That is kind of contradictory crazy, you just said that you pick people who share your views, but then yoshi does not share your views. So is that why he has not had a chance to prove himself? And then by extension it makes sense that Yoshi and the present Findep have very differing views on the economy, because the present findep represents a whole other point of view. I think at least a trial period would be warranted, i do not see the massive upheaval or economic damage here. Give the guy a chance to prove his ideas work. We are not talking about life or death here. if you dont try something knew then you will never know progress.


24 Jun 2011, 02:27
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009, 15:11
Posts: 6523
Post Re: New Finance Minister and new times.
The main reason he never gotten a chance is becaouse i first heard his name this week. And well... Let's just say it was a bad start for us.

Ofcourse i have no problem with letting him share his views, but don't come say we never made progress. Lets just say tax revenue has increased with approximately 33300% since i first started controlling FinDep (With some help) and we had a good control for almost a year.

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24 Jun 2011, 02:33
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